Monday Block 1

Video Credit: WTAT
Published on June 22, 2020 -
Monday Block 1

Monday Block 1

>> members of lgbtq community and beyond are celebrating a landmark decision by the u.s. supreme court that prohibits employers from discriminating against people on the basis of gender identity or sexual orientation.

Here to give us perspective is melissa burnett, cofounder of burnett, shut, mcdaniel and larry cunningham, the new dean of the charleston school of law, so thank you for being here.

>> thank you.

>> i'm going to direct my question to you, how significant is this decision?

>> this is a very significant decision from the supreme court.

Before this case was decided, a person who is lgbtq could get married on a sunday, but fired from their job on monday.

And what this new decision says, title 7 of the civil rights act prohibits employers from taking adverse actions against.

[ audio difficulties ] because they're gay or transgender.

>> where did this case originate?

>> the case actually originated from several different cases around the country.

The lead case involved a plaintiff who was actually fired from his job when it was discovered that he was a member of a gay softball league.

And there were other similar kinds of cases around the country, and then the supreme court consolidated them together for one decision.

>> i see okay, and meliss a.

Your firm represented two women in south carolina who wished to be married.

They sued and they won.

This was back in 2014, and maybe you can take us back and tell us what this case is all about.

>> reporter: it was a wonderful victory for south carolina to not be the last in the nation to have marriage equality.

So in november of 2014, that was achieved by my law firm and a lot of wonderful partners.

Other advocacy groups, and immediately, we said, as larry said, you can get married now, but still fired from your job being lgbtq and that was the first step, and we had marriage equality in south carolina in 2014, whereas it had not been decided that it would apply nationwide until july, 2019, and we were actually ahead of the curve for a change.

So then any lgbtq individuals have gotten married since that time.

And i performed marriages and it's a wonderful, wonderful thing, but we knew it's just the first step.

And as far as employment, i'm an employment lawyer mostly, and civil rights, but there are still challenges in housing and public accommodations.

But i think this decision is going to affect those areas as well.

>> what was the rule of law on this issue in south carolina before the decision was made?

>> well, it was uncertain this case clarified t but those of us who practice employment law ride on the equal employment opportunity guidelines, which were issued self years ago.

Several years ago --and title 7l rights act to include sexual orientation and gender identity.

So we have continued to proceed adds though that was the law, but now we know it's the law.

>> i see.

Now, this is a completely different case, but we have heard cases across the country, such as someone who refuses to bake a cake for a same six wedding because of their personal feelings about it, does this pose any challenges for employers who are convicted in their feelings about this?

And truly refuse to either hire someone on that basis or keep someone employed once they find out, what are the ramifications of them exercising those feelings?

>> i think they're going to have a much weaker defense at this point, because many times those cases were based on personal feelings, which it's not going to count anymore.

Though it's couched in terms of religious freedom.

>> are there any lines of work that this law doesn't apply to?

>> not according to the decision.

>> and larry, you're the new dean of the school of law here in charleston, and i'm sure that you have a lot of students within that school who are very interested in lgbtqimators.

So i would imagine that this would be kind of first and foremost in some of the teaching that people are certainly quaint with civil rights, and how does the school move forward with this decision.

>> we're in a pivotal time in the ongoing struggle for civil rights, not just for lgbtq individuals, but certainly along other lines.

We certainly are going through a seismicshift in how we think about civil rights, and this is something that law schools are particularly well suited to be incubators of discussion and thoughtful dialogue around.

And i have to say, this is personal to me.

I'm openly gay, we were married in 2013, and it impacted me.

There were places in the country that i could not move with my husband out of concern for being fired.

So this was not just an academic thing for me personally.

Right now, before this decision, we had to really rely a lot on local municipalities and states to protect our rights.

So the city of charleston, for instance s.

One of the more progressive cities in terms of providing some local rights for people.

But now the decision is national in scope, which is tremendous, and now we have to think through what are the next steps in terms of civil rights?

And not just for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender individuals, but really for all people.

But there's a word of caution.

>> i'm sorry to interrupt, larry, but we need to take a break, but when we come back, i want to hear your final thoughts on this and >> and we're back with mellates burnett, cofounder and senior partner and larry cunningham of the new charleston school of law.

I wanted to let larry continue his thought and with the break, something of a statutory decision as opposed to a constitutional one, so please talk about what you were in the last segment for us.

>> absolutely, i just wanted to give a word of caution, that boston passed an interpretation of the law passed by congress, so in theory congress could pass the law back if they wanted to.

In contrast, the marriage equality cases were a question of constitutional law, and the constitution can only be changed by amendment or the interpretation could be changed by future supreme court decisions.

>> and melissa, this differs from the case that you represented involving your clients that wanted to marry in 2014.

>> right, that was a difference.

Marriage equality is established now as a fundamental right under the u.s. constitution.

It was a fundamental right to marry.

And larry is exactly right.

You know, until there's further progress in our nation, statutes can still be changed.

And we all are concerned about that.

But at least this is a good step forward, and in south carolina, the williams institute says there are about 100,000 lgbtq individuals who are in the workforce, so it affects a lot of people.

>> so let's say someone falls within that category is hired, and they're working in a job and they end up getting fired, how do you then prevent false claims of discrimination?

>> well, as an employment lawyer, i try to investigate all of the facts, and i never bring a case unless i've done a thorough investigation.

So i ask my client, what is the evidence of this?

Have other people heard what was said about you, or are there memos, emails?

It's an investigation before a case is brought.

Not everybody has a case.

And there might be some other reason for the adverse action, but lawyers have a duty to thoroughly investigate a case before they file it, and we do that.

>> this is the month of group, pride month, and larry, i'll give you the final word here.

What is your hope for the future?

What are the challenges for the future?

What's the next step that we need to be focusing on as far as our civil rights in this country?

>> i think as meliss abindicated, there are still areas where lgbtq individuals face discrimination.

The bostick decision will help change that moving forward.

But there will be continued litigation over this, and over the conflict between free exercise of religion, and sincerely held religious beliefs, and the rights of lgbtq lesbian, gay, bisexual, lgbtq individuals.

And then the civil rights movement on our doorstep as we talk about what is the proper role of government, government officials and how do we protect people's civil rights.

>> melissa, larry, i want to thank you so much for joining us.

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